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Author Topic: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please  (Read 21491 times)

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCE Consumption
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2006, 10:16:20 PM »
Quote from: Lupine1647
...bandwidth has nothing to do with CPU load.
So the CPU is not involved in responding to file calls, serving up the files, and writing to the logs...? How then is my CPU over-usage all httpd stuff?

Quote from: Lupine1647
Staple, Ask support about why a gif file can cause a load like that...
...and how the graphic can be more of a drain than the multi-kilobyte HTML page that serves it up.

If Support gets back to me with an answer on that, I'll let you know.

Thank you.

Eliz.

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCE Consumption
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2006, 10:21:02 PM »
I just noticed that the "we're about to cancel your account because you're crashing the server" Support ticket is only a "medium priority" thing. What would it take to be a "high priority" issue...?

No word from Support on what the problem is that they're wanting me to fix. (It's tempting to post another reply to the ticket, but I know that'll just drop it to the bottom of the queue.) I'll check again tomorrow.

Thank you.

Eliz.

Offline GMTurner

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2006, 11:32:13 PM »
I don't believe that LP uses the priority setting on tickets. Instead they consider all tickets, regardless of the priority setting, to be a high priority.

The server resource usage issue is a very tricky one and often difficult to track down. For example, notice that in the report for AL3X1S, only the fact that it was PHP is reported and not the actual script. I've recently seen more reports of non-script items being on the "offender" list. (Also, I've noticed more people posting that report when this issue comes up than in the past, so not sure if the non-script items have really changed that much since no real basis for comparison.)

Anyway, httpd is the apache web server process which is apparently consuming "excessive" resources when serving those images. Now why it would be doing this I have no idea, nor can I think of anything you could do to improve the performance of apache. Although it would probably have no effect, you could delete the image and then upload it again.... and it shouldn't make any difference, but of course serving an image should consume excessive CPU resources either as far as I know...



The above information may or may not reflect current policy, opinions, or views since it was likely made almost 10 years ago.

Offline GMTurner

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2006, 11:45:31 PM »
I had a thought... since the web server processes .htaccess files while serving other files, it could be that something in your .htaccess file is, for some reason, creating the high load in httpd while serving the image file... I'm not sure why this would happen, but it was a thought I had while looking into issues of apache and server load. Have you recently made any changes to your .htaccess file(s)? If so, were these manual changes you made or things done via cPanel?


The above information may or may not reflect current policy, opinions, or views since it was likely made almost 10 years ago.

Lupine1647

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2006, 05:25:11 AM »
Quote
So the CPU is not involved in responding to file calls, serving up the files, and writing to the logs...?

It is but that's not bandwidth.

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce Resource Consumption
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2006, 05:35:20 AM »
Quote from: GMTurner
Have you recently made any changes to your .htaccess file(s)? If so, were these manual changes you made or things done via cPanel?
Um... I hand-deleted a few commented-out lines, since they had been confirmed no longer to be necessary. So, yes, there was a "change" (the file had become marginally smaller), but the execution should not have been unaffected.

Thank you.

Eliz.

P.S. No word from Support yet....

P.P.S. A year or so ago, Support told me that my site was too big for Lunarpages to be able to handle the volume of incoming spam, and I had to contract with an outside mail service. But Support appears to have changed my MX records, so that outside service can no longer receive my mail.

P.P.P.S. I just noticed that Support changed the name of my site's "contact" page, even though the only PHP on the page is an insertion of the sender's IP address. According to their report, that page isn't the problem, nor, I think, is the underlying script (which was not renamed). I wonder what's up with that. I'd ask, but of course that would send my ticket back down to the bottom of the queue....
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 06:19:23 AM by stapel »

Offline AL3X1S

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2006, 06:43:57 AM »
they confirm it.  :( its sad

quote: A site as busy as yours (50 to 100 users connected simultaneously) is simply too active for a shared server environment
 :-?

and my reply:
Code: [Select]
in the worst of the cases
I will disable and close the forum :(

and I will stay in that host only with the few files of the homepage;
so no problem of resources or bandwith.

but you dont have to close the site and NOT REMOVE ANYTHING PLEASE

downloading the database backup gives me error,
I maybe have to copy the database with phpmyadmin table per table from this host to a new host.
I have not other remedy to find other host out of here where I can put the forum temporally while I get money to buy a dedicated server.


they have not still asnwered me since yesterday and an admin said the other day that the limit date to reduce consume is 20january, tomorrow  :-?

I hope they dont close the site before contacting me
or without giving me the chance to keep the database there to move the forum..
If i close the forum, they should not suspend the account I am paying for.

I have read other sad storys like this, but I am optimistic by the moment..
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 06:45:49 AM by AL3X1S »

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce Resource Consumption
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2006, 07:12:12 AM »
Quote from: AL3X1S
they [Support] confirm it....quote: "A site as busy as yours (50 to 100 users connected simultaneously) is simply too active for a shared server environment"
I find that a little disturbing. A forum with fifty users just doesn't strike me as being that big. In point of fact, this forum, Lunarforums, is indeed on a shared server: the Galaxy server.

In the past, I've dismissed complaints of "they're selling us bandwidth we can't use" as so much uninformed grumbling, and have agreed that Lunarpages was being more sensible than "those" hosts, the ones who promise more than they can deliver, but I'm afraid now I'm starting to wonder....

I know that "CPU resources" does not "equal" "bandwidth", strictly speaking. But one of the CPU's processes is the "httpd" process of receiving incoming file calls and serving up those files to a site's visitors; in other words, processing the stuff that is "bandwidth". So the two are related, at least to some degree.

If my marginal (sixty-meg-footprint) site full of small static pages and tiny *.gif images using about forty gigs of transfer a month is "too big for shared hosting", then how could one ever hope to use the allowed bandwidth in a shared context? If, as Support reported for the 16th, a two-kilobyte image being served up on average twenty-one times an hour is enough to chew up ten percent of the CPU's processing power, what sort of file sizes could the CPU handle?

Given the information and feedback we've received to this point, I have to ask: what could a site possibly contain, do, or be that would get even close to using 400 gigs of transfer, and yet still be acceptable for shared hosting? Or -- I hate to say it -- is Lunarpages now offering something that cannot, in actuality, be provided?

Eliz.

Offline AL3X1S

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2006, 08:31:23 AM »
yes
I hope that an admin read this and look for a sollution for us.

using only 15Mb of 4gb offered
and 30gb transfer of 400gb offered

it cant be consuming too much now
since I cleaned all the site leaving only the forum files.

if they want. I would change my phpbb to SMF forums

all before have the forum community down.  :?

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce Resource Consumption
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2006, 08:55:20 AM »
Quote from: AL3X1S
I hope that an admin read this and look for a sollution for us.
...or Support or somebody. Have you heard back on your ticket yet? I'm getting "ants in the pants" not replying to my own ticket while waiting for an eventual response.

Quote from: AL3X1S
if they want. I would change my phpbb to SMF forums
I have heard of certain forum scripts being more resource-intensive than others.

But Support didn't say "your use of an unoptimized script" was causing an overload. You were told that having fifty users at a time cruising the forum was too much for any sort of shared hosting. This implies that, regardless of the script you use, if you have more than a miniscule audience, you can't host a forum here without going to dedicated hosting, if at all.

It makes me wonder how this Lunarforums board can function, and how some "big" but non-profit forums, with hundreds of users online at a time, can exist at all.

 :?

Eliz.

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce Resource Consumption
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2006, 09:11:07 AM »
Returning to the "CPU processing power versus bandwidth" issue, I'm wondering if perhaps part of the problem is that my site is too optimized...?

The CPU has to accept and route (process) the file calls sent by visitors' browsers, and then send out the requested files. These files are small static HTML pages and tiny GIF images. So it's not like the "load" of responding to file calls should be terribly heavy individually; as mentioned earlier, my bandwidth consumption is only about 1.5 gigs a day.

However, I do regularly have eight to thirteen thousand visitors in a day. Might the problem be that the CPU is having trouble handling that many requests?

...of course, that still leaves the issue of why fifteen thousand visitors a day was fine back in October, but ten thousand is too many in January, but this is all I can come up with....

Without any feedback from Support on what might be the "problem" they're wanting me to "fix", I may be grasping at straws. Does the above even sound plausible?

Thank you.

Eliz.

Offline Tracie

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2006, 02:13:32 PM »
Hi,

While we certainly appreciate the concerns you have, there are a couple things to keep in mind:

1. Our forum users cannot trouble shoot this for you as they do not have all information.

2. It's not in the best interest of Lunarpages to suspend sites or ask customers to leave. There is always a reason and it's only done as a last resort.  We offer shared hosting at a low cost. It's a simple fact that not all types of accounts will be suitable for shared hosting.

It sounds like you both have extremely busy/popular sites. I'm not saying this is a 100% fact for your sites, but, it may just be that no amount of tweaking scripts/files is going to lower the load on the server, if you are getting that much traffic.

This isn't just about offering bandwidth you can't use, either. Comments like that put Lunarpages between a rock and a hard place. Any site that puts strain on a server is affecting other customers. We risk losing you as a customer (something that is not in our best interest) but we risk losing others if our servers aren't running at full performance because 1 account is using up the resources (regardless of why).

We do have customers who use up their bandwidth without putting any strain on the server. But not every account is the same, there isn't a black and white answer.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 02:17:12 PM by Tracie »

stephan

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2006, 02:44:55 PM »
Hello,

Stapel, I think you have understood the issue perfectly.

Your website has many small files, which each need a request to Apache (the httpd process you see in the stats). To lower the usage, you could have fewer requests to make up each page, which would normally mean having fewer images.

15,000 visitors a day is quite a lot really, as the Shuttle/Voyager plans, although they can cope with a lot, are basically budget-priced webhosting, as they cost upwards from $7.95. I'm not saying that we can't host busy sites, but it really depends on the amount of hits they are getting and the amount of requests they get.

The fact that each image/file is handled individually is the issue. If they weren't, there would be fewer requests and the usage would be lower.

I think that in your case, you could lower the amount of images and stay hosting on your current plan without having to upgrade to a dedicated server. It could well be worth a try, however, upgrading to a dedicated server might be a better option, especially if you think that over the next few years, your usage might go up.

As was mentioned before in this post, bandwidth/disc space and CPU/Memory/database usage aren't the same.


AL3X1S, if I remember correctly, you were using phpBB? Although that is ok, at the time of writing, we recommend SMF instead. In your case, the issue is not really the amount of connections, it is that a PHP script on your account is using too many resources. This could be because the script has been poorly designed, or possibly that your database is corrupted, or just needs optimisation.

phpBB doesn't "prune" posts by default, so the database will grow to be very large. This means queries will take longer, and so will use up more resources. My advice to you is to remove old posts and old users to lower the size of the database, then optimise it. If the usage is still high, make a backup, then convert to SMF.

Although I think that's the main issue on your account, you also mentioned that you were using many "tiny" .gif images. Each of these opens a new request to Apache, so will also raise the usage, however, I think it's a bit of both in this case.

I hope that explains what is happening. If you have any questions, please let us know.

Offline stapel

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Re: Tips to Reduce Resource Consumption
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2006, 04:16:09 PM »
Quote from: stephan
15,000 visitors a day is quite a lot really....
Thank you! This is precisely the sort of information we need. "Is 15K visitors a lot for one day?" "Is 300K file calls a lot for one day?"

You have to understand: I only have the one "big" site, so I can't tell, from just my own experience, if it's really big, or if it's just my head that's getting big. :D

But what I'm hearing from other sources is making me think that maybe Lunarpages just hadn't loaded up the Galaxy server until recently, so they hadn't noticed my traffic -- which was higher four months ago than it is now -- until just now.

I understand that Lunarpages has to try to balance competing demands and do what they think is best for the majority of users. And I understand that the fellow users on these forums cannot provide specific feedback. But without any information from Support (and it's been twenty-four hours since I sent my ticket in), it's hard to make an informed decision. So any generic "FYI" guidelines in this area will be very much appreciated. :yey:

Quote from: stephan
The fact that each image/file is handled individually is the issue. If they weren't, there would be fewer requests and the usage would be lower.
That was what I was guessing. So some other site, with only, say, a hundred visitors a day, but which allows for downloads of multi-megabyte video downloads, could chew through that big bandwidth allowance without putting the same sort of drain on the CPU that I am, because, though my files are tiny, they're being called zillions of times.

Quote from: stephan
As was mentioned before in this post, bandwidth/disc space and CPU/Memory/database usage aren't the same.
That was what I explained to the "forum" guy who started this thread. But, while different, the issues are at least somewhat related.

Again, thank you for replying with helpful information.

Eliz.

Offline AL3X1S

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Re: Tips to Reduce RESOURCES Consume please
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2006, 05:49:49 PM »
AL3X1S, if I remember correctly, you were using phpBB? Although that is ok, at the time of writing, we recommend SMF instead. In your case, the issue is not really the amount of connections, it is that a PHP script on your account is using too many resources. This could be because the script has been poorly designed, or possibly that your database is corrupted, or just needs optimisation.

phpBB doesn't "prune" posts by default, so the database will grow to be very large. This means queries will take longer, and so will use up more resources. My advice to you is to remove old posts and old users to lower the size of the database, then optimise it. If the usage is still high, make a backup, then convert to SMF.

I hope that explains what is happening. If you have any questions, please let us know.

thanx for the reply stephan,  :yey:
I was turning frustrated since I didnīt receive answers today in the support tickets.

Ok
I will prune old posts,
I will delete users inactive or with 0 posts etc,

and I will remove some mods that I added to the phpbb latelly and could maybe cause the increase of resources.

the host will stay with the few forum files only
I will put the avatars external to the host, and the gifs that necessary
I will do everything before see my community down.

I will start thinking how to make money of it, donations, publicity, sells
to get money and buy a dedicated server here.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 05:51:50 PM by AL3X1S »