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Author Topic: Who really cares?  (Read 7677 times)

Offline Ripta

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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2004, 08:52:11 PM »
All I'm saying, don't generalize everyone to be one kind or the other. I've seen friends yell at their parents. I've seen parent who won't listen to their children. It's all unavoidable and from my own parents, I've realised it's not easy being a parent. But as a teenager, I'm finding myself, I'm experimenting; to be stamped a "whore" is not helping, no matter what. I do believe you know better than me that life is never that simple.

True, I do not know how it is to be a parent. True, I do not know how it is to be "too young to notice". The weird thing is, I get judged by more older people than people my age. I can't say it's because older people are mindless. It could be the case that both older and younger groups think the same about me; the older say it to my face, the younger talk behind my back.

Anyway, I really think I shouldn't go on any further because this forum is not a place to discuss these matters. Thanks for listening, though.
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Offline Shecky

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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2004, 12:01:54 AM »
Okay, I'm going to address the original point, if I may. I suppose I'm one of the hapless masses that uses other people's tools to create my website. Unlike many, I have not, nor do I intend to draw attention to it by posting a "Check out my 133+ w3b51+3!!!" thread. I agree that a good portion of such sites are pretty much boring pap.

That said, I don't really see a problem with getting a helping hand in maintaining your website. I used to hand-code my site, and I could do that again, but it is simply easier for me to use PHP-Nuke instead. My site has a small but devoted following, who rather like the functionality that came with the conversion to a Nuked site, so it works in my case.

Maybe it looks like every other Nuked site in many ways, but looks are not everything. In my opinion, content is much more important than looks anyway. You could have the most innovative and intuitive website design ever, but if the content is lackluster, you still have a pretty bad site.

... and before anyone points this out, I'm not saying that my site has good content. I know my site is pathetic, but it amuses my friends and I, and that's good enough for me. I'm simply saying that looks are not everything, nor is the tools one uses to build one's site.

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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2004, 03:24:20 AM »
binaryblue - the most important thing is how and what you think about yourself. In my experience of people I have known who "judge" harshly and without a caring purpose, do so because it's just something they need to do to fill up a gap in their lives or because they have nothing better to do with their "energy".  If you feel you are a good person, with integrity and honor, and you feel good about who you are, then that's what counts.  Most people who "cast stones", do so, because something is lacking in their own life ... many are very unhappy people who have a need to make others around them unhappy, too. It's like they have an addiction to be negative.

But, don't let them pull you into their realm or let them damage your spirit.  Think about who you would rather be around ... a negative person or a positive person?  A person who always complains about everything, or a person who tries to look at the bright side of things?  A person who plays "victim" and always blames everyone/everything for their misgivings, or one who takes "responsibility" for their life and looks for solutions to "move on", instead of wallowing in self-pity?  Just be the latter in all these, and you will be successful in what you do and you will be happy and secure in who you are. But, you also have to be able to take/accept feedback when you know it's coming from "caring".

Anyway, I have seen you contributing/helping people with their problems on this forum, and in my opinion, that says a LOT about you. You get a :thumb: from me. There are those of us out there who aren't totally blind to seeing people for who they really are.  When you get to that point in your life where you are totally honest with yourself and you know all your strengths and, more importantly, can admit to all your weaknesses, it's normally not hard to spot someone else's.

********

ctcrmcou - Well, the saying "to each his/her own" is a prime example of why you can never have the "perfect" website.

As there will always be differing opinions/feelings about politics, there will always be differing opinions/feelings on what makes a good website.
 
You may like Picasso, while someone else may like Rembrandt or another may prefer a color crayon drawing by a child.  You may not find a particular content/topic interesting, while someone else may find it fascinating, so what one might determine as just "filling up space" may not be that to someone else. :)

There are many "personal" (not professional/commercial) sites here that people have created to share their hobbies, personal stories, photographs, and just to have fun.  I think that it is wonderful that they have put themselves out there (in whatever way they can or know how) even if their websites are not to everyone's liking or the most spectacular in content/design.

Many here are newbies just starting out their sites for the first time.  Let's not judge these too harshly, because we all had to start somewhere.

I will say, however, that in my opinion "commercial" sites should (if possible) be a little more professional looking for credibility and appeal.  Viewers will tend to judge a company, and may be the determining factor in doing business with them, by how their commercial website looks.

LOL ... I can see that this thread served your purpose of inspiring the type reactions that you were probably looking for. :)

Unfortunately, you won't change the world out there, but next best thing you can do is to contribute your opinion/feedback to make a positive difference to helping someone create that better site.

But, if all else fails and this world never conforms to your needs for perfect website development ... you have the option/choice to exit out of a site.  That, you have total control of.  :D

Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2004, 07:22:53 AM »
Well I think binaryblue was a little oversensitive to begin with, being a kid and all sticking up for his cause.  He/she was under the impression that I was directing my comments to him specifically.  He should know whether or not he fit the stereotype I was describing.  For example, when I make the comment "there are a lot a bad web developers out there", the ones who are not bad don't take it to heart.  The inexperienced or hobbiest web masters are not in the category either.  I'm talking about those that rip people off with crappy sites - the professionals that take advantage of people.

If I say this world sucks, people understand what I'm talking about, yet I think the "world" (bad people not included) is a beautiful place to live.  Its everything else that defines "world" to other people, and their own experiences will either classify it as sucks or wonderful.  When I say kids these days are punks and sluts, people know what my point is, they also know I am not talking about every kid on the planet.  

Enough of that talk.  My goal with this post was to blow off steam.  I have many coworkers that ask me to help them with tasks that they are too lazy to learn how to do themselves.  If a webmaster says "check out my site" and "what do you think of this?"  the honest feedback is "if you are not going to learn how to create a site properly, which by the way will take a commitment of actual learning, then all I can do is say "change the font" rather than offer suggestions of server side scripting or some neat DHTML tricks, because they won't know what I am talking about.  Yes, my target audience was probably more the professional level sites rather than the hobbiest.

Its just too much of the same.  Its watered down.  I mean no disrespect to anyone.  I was just hoping for some inspiration on a tough work day.

Thanks for listening.

Offline netmasterbill

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« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2004, 09:10:18 AM »
Had a bad day yesterday, ctcrmcou?  Seek medical attention.  Remember the Excedrin commercial from the 60s?  "I know you have a headache, Bob, but don't take it out on the kids."  You keep saying we understand what you are talking about, but I haven't a clue what you are talking about.  Take a lesson from binaryblue and lead by example.

A 52 year old kid

Offline KJones

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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2004, 09:16:53 AM »
Quote
Its just too much of the same. Its watered down.


And you have just proved my original point. The site you linked to first (www.siteexperts.com) is just like a million other sites. Where is the innovation and originality?

I prefer hand coding my site because I like knowing that I made it, not some group of PHP programmers. But I can totally understand why someone would decide to use PHP Nuke... some people don't have time to hand code 5000 pages and tweak CSS codes forever.

And if I was making an e-commerce site where security is an issue then I would definately not rely on my own skills... I would use something like osCommerce.

There is a reason why most people buy mass produced cars from companies like Ford rather than building their own. I'm sure there is a certain amount of satisfaction in creating your own "one of a kind" car that you built from scratch... but you can only do it if you have time, skill, and money. It's easier to let someone else do it for you.
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2004, 12:13:03 PM »
Quote from: ctcrmcou
If a webmaster says "check out my site" and "what do you think of this?"  the honest feedback is "if you are not going to learn how to create a site properly, which by the way will take a commitment of actual learning, then all I can do is say "change the font" rather than offer suggestions of server side scripting or some neat DHTML tricks, because they won't know what I am talking about.


Giving a feedback like "change the font" is fine, that's a good feedback if that is your opinion/feeling to someone for which their site may look better.  You may want to be more specific to them, however, because obviously they didn't see a problem with it in the first place.  Adding to that feedback with ... "because it's hard to read", or "it's too harsh on the eyes", or "it doesn't match with your overall site's look", etc. helps them to understand "why" you think they should change the font. They can then decide whether they want to take your advice or not.

I agree that your place would not be to spend all your time to teach them how to do all the scripting, etc.  They do need to take responsibility to learn that themselves, and for their own good, too, so that they can benefit from the hands-on training, rather than rely on someone else just doing it for them. But, I don't see the harm in you suggesting that they do some neat DHTML tricks, etc.  You may want to point them to a site where they can learn more about it if it's "over their head" right now. Again, they may or may not take your advice, but what if they did and it turns out that they created a much better/cooler site because of your suggestion?  You'd have then "empowered" them to create an awesome site. Okay, I know this is cliche, but I'm going to say it anyway ... then you would be one more person "making a difference to someone else in this world".  :thumb: :D  

I do feel, however, that feedback should be "productive" and not "destructive".  If it's not going to produce anything of value to the person (ex: just outright saying to someone that their website sucks), then what is the purpose to that person but to just make them feel bad.  :(

Quote from: ctcrmcou
I was just hoping for some inspiration on a tough work day. Thanks for listening.


Hey, you have the right to vent your opinions/frustrations/etc. (that's what being in a "free world" is) and you will get feeback from others in many different forms.  Some you'll like, some you won't.  I believe that something is always gained in every thread made.

Like I said in my previous post, we all have differing opinions/feelings about things and it's good to be able to discuss them, share ideas, debate (civily) on topics, etc.  We wouldn't want to be robots and think/feel/be all alike.  :)

But, no name calling please.  That's going to be taken insultingly by some,  even though you think everyone should "know" what you mean ... truth is, they don't. :love:

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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2004, 12:40:26 PM »
Quote from: KJones
And if I was making an e-commerce site where security is an issue then I would definately not rely on my own skills... I would use something like osCommerce.

There is a reason why most people buy mass produced cars from companies like Ford rather than building their own. I'm sure there is a certain amount of satisfaction in creating your own "one of a kind" car that you built from scratch... but you can only do it if you have time, skill, and money. It's easier to let someone else do it for you.


Good points.  :thumb:

Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2004, 01:07:29 PM »
It doesn't matter what I say.  Who the hell is "ctcrmcou" anyways?  What vision does that give you?  But I did get the hits and responses up.  So those who took it passionately, and felt the need to respond, good for you.  I have nothing to prove to anyone, nor anyone to me.  But if it gives you time to spend in front of your computer and show others how to deal with a person like "ctcrmcou" then you will walk away feeling good.  We all need that.  Now that I have found no true value here in this run of the mill forum, I'll be on my way.  And for those of you who still need to "stick it" to ctcrmcou, go for it.  I just won't be around to read up, but others may be impressed by your comments.

Good luck!

Oh, and netmasterbill, of course you don't know what I'm talking about.  You don't pay attention.  Back in your day these things were dealt with quietly, or not at all.  That's why the world is the way it is today.

leighsww

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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2004, 01:48:33 PM »
Hmmm, I would have hoped that you would have taken the feedback better, instead of responding as you have and now choosing to leave.

Many of us have not "stuck it to you" but been very civil and took your welfare into much consideration with responses to you.

Unfortunately, every time you walk away from an uncomfortable situation or refuse to at least consider other people's viewpoints no matter how much they differ or conflict with yours, then you will continue to feel the way you do and get negative results in your life.

All I can say to you at this point is ... look at your results in your life (relationships with people, business, etc.) and if you are not happy with some of your results, then the only way to "change" them is to do something different than what you are doing now because what you are doing now is probably not working to your advantage.

It has shown clearly in your last post.

I truly wish you would stay with us and keep contributing (doesn't have to be to this thread, but to the forum in general).  I'm sure you can benefit others greatly (if you come from "caring" and not just "bashing",) and maybe you can benefit from others, as well.

However, if you still choose to leave, then I wish you well and I mean that sincerely.

P.S. If you choose to stay, then visit us in the FUN or CHAT forums, because there is where we welcome "bashing"!  Those of us there find it a form of affection, LOL!  :)  We get a little "bonkers" in there so you have to be willing to let loose and have FUN!  :o

Offline KJones

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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2004, 02:19:51 PM »
Whoops!  :oops: :oops: :oops:

I just re-read this thread and realized there was a small "friendly fire" incident.

My first post in this thread ("No offense man, but your site is a standard 3 column design...") was directed at ctcrmcou but apparently donovanh thought I was talking about his sites. To make things worse, I wasn't paying attention and thought his replies were made by ctcrmcou.

I want to clear this up... I do not have a problem with donovanh's websites, I think they look great. I was criticizing ctcrmcou because I don't like his attitude.

Sorry for the confusion, donovanh!
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Offline Ripta

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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2004, 02:35:13 PM »
(Quick note: Apologies because this is very long. If you wanna read, I would appreciate you read the whole thing or nothing at all. Thanks!)

Quote from: ctcrmcou

Well I think binaryblue was a little oversensitive to begin with, being a kid and all sticking up for his cause.


I can admit I was oversensitive, and I'm sure everyone who has read my post(s) on this board gets that I'm very sensitive as an individual. Sure, no one knows my gender or age or who I am. But not knowing someone is the more reason (for me anyway) to not generalize. Again, I could expand on that last sentence about my being a kid. Not all kids are oversensitive, you know? As for sticking up for my cause, if you consider my personal opinion as a cause, then yes.

Sure, it's okay to vent. Venting is :thumb: when you say you have to vent because you've had a bad day, just in genereal. Sure, criticize. Critiques help :thumb: when you say "wouldn't green go better instead of pink? It kinda hurts my eyes."

Sure, I don't think about those mortgage bills. I don't think about my kids' college funds; I have no kids. But please do consider from my side as well: I was venting to someone who I felt judged me. One could say "Kid, welcome to the real world. People judge you."

And yes, I know that. But knowing doesn't mean I should sit down whenever I feel I am being treated wrongly in some or any way. And, most importantly,

Quote from: ctcrmcou

Look at kids these days. They are punks and sluts, and all want to be noticed. This is because as individuals they have no worth, or at least think they have no worth unless they are convinced it can only be gained by being like everyone else --- just like these websites.


In that, you are talking about kids these days being s*uts, i.e. generalization of the kids these days, me inclusive. I, as a these-days kid, have the right to take it really personally. I could have taken it further and then queried why you had generalized kids these days (or maybe the youth?) as individuals that have no worth.

With all do respect, it is awfully shallow to think of kids these days, or anyone for that matter, as individuals with no worth. That is certainly different than saying "some kids act like the have no worth". Ahem. And so, you said in your original post:

Quote from: ctcrmcou

If you want a pat on the back for creating what you think is a masterpiece, here is the real news. There are ten-billion web sites out there and nobody knows or cares about yours.


I kinda assumed "you" = "the person reading this right now, you". If I interpreted it incorrectly, I apologize. That first post just doesn't really fit into your most recent claim of:

Quote from: ctcrmcou

For example, when I make the comment "there are a lot a bad web developers out there", the ones who are not bad don't take it to heart.


Oh, well.

Quote from: ctcrmcou

Now that I have found no true value here in this run of the mill forum, I'll be on my way. And for those of you who still need to "stick it" to ctcrmcou, go for it. I just won't be around to read up, but others may be impressed by your comments.


Hmm... to me, this discussion is not with no value. Discussion is actually pretty interesting as long as no flaming is done. Another point I'd like to mention, "sticking up" seems like I'm proving myself right and proving you wrong. Or at least, it's not my point. I'm just saying "be considerate". Anyways,

Quote from: leighsww

But, don't let them pull you into their realm or let them damage your spirit.



:love: @ leighsww  8-)
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Offline Ripta

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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2004, 02:37:32 PM »
Quote from: leighsww
P.S. If you choose to stay, then visit us in the FUN or CHAT forums, because there is where we welcome "bashing"!  Those of us there find it a form of affection, LOL!  :)  We get a little "bonkers" in there so you have to be willing to let loose and have FUN!  :o


Hmm... "bashing"? Is that what all the  :whip: and  :evil: in FUN is all about? :D

Extra edit: :P

And, just for fairness,

Quote from: ctcrmcou

If I say this world sucks, people understand what I'm talking about, yet I think the "world" (bad people not included) is a beautiful place to live. Its everything else that defines "world" to other people, and their own experiences will either classify it as sucks or wonderful. When I say kids these days are punks and sluts, people know what my point is, they also know I am not talking about every kid on the planet.


was mentioned. I guess in my personal opinion, saying "the world" means everyone and not just specific parts, while saying "kids today" means specifically, kids today.
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leighsww

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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2004, 02:47:52 PM »
Quote from: binaryblue
Hmm... "bashing"? Is that what all the  :whip: and  :evil: in FUN is all about? :D


LOL ... why, yes, my dear!  That is exactly what the  :whip:  :poke:  :evil:  :o  :twisted:  :shock:  are for!

Offline Ripta

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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2004, 02:53:53 PM »
Quote from: leighsww
Quote from: binaryblue
Hmm... "bashing"? Is that what all the  :whip: and  :evil: in FUN is all about? :D


LOL ... why, yes, my dear!  That is exactly what the  :whip:  :poke:  :evil:  :o  :twisted:  :shock:  are for!


Nice! I can't help but think :evil: is more of a :look-at-me-i'm-so-cute-kind-of-evil:.

:D
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