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Author Topic: Who really cares?  (Read 7812 times)

Offline ctcrmcou

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Who really cares?
« on: March 05, 2004, 12:47:06 PM »
Give me a break.  If you want a pat on the back for creating what you think is a masterpiece, here is the real news.  There are ten-billion web sites out there and nobody knows or cares about yours.  Most of you copy templates or existing code and have NO originality.  Your backgrounds and repetitive graphics are boring, and you web authors that pick black backgrounds should all be banned from ever creating a site again.  

Here's the typical post here:

Feed back please!  www.whocares.com

Response:  Nice Site!!!  :thumb:

After looking at about 100 sites, they all look the same.  Build a site that does something of value other than a place to show off your vacation pictures.  And you people that feel the need to pack your site with boxes and boxes of text are using up valuble diskspace somewhere.

Come on!  Where are the artists?  Show me something people.

Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2004, 12:48:46 PM »
Oh, I should have checked out where that link www.whocares.com goes, because as it turns out, its another site full of someones pictures.

I rest my case.

Offline garyp

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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2004, 01:16:19 PM »
Carrying your argument a little further, who ever ruled that it was all about being an artist?

It's about the data and getting to it quickly - period.  Somewhere people have lost sight of that.

If you're speaking of the 'art' behind data storage and retrieval...I would agree.

Danielle

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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2004, 01:36:19 PM »
Well, I have a site that, although unfinished, is about providing information for gardening.  It isn't art at all, but it is a bunch of pictures of my plants.  I suppose the only people who care are those who garden in the Midwest and want actual information about the plants.  I don't think we are all making sites and claiming to be artists or expecting people to think our site is great.  I simply wanted to provide useful information on a subject I am interested in.  So, you are right, if you aren't interested in what I have on my site, then you wouldn't care.  I don't care about 99% of the sites out there either, just the ones with information that I find interesting or valuable.  Thus, I agree with garyp, to me it is about the data pure and simple.  If there wasn't information availabe online but just a load of pictures, then I wouldn't even bother.  I can get mindless pictures and garbage watching t.v.

Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2004, 01:50:29 PM »
Right on garyp.  Thanks for clarifying.  I'm not talking about beautiful images and fancy logos.  I'm talking about the site as as whole as a piece of art.  That includes thinking about a smart layout, fonts, colors schemes,  interaction with the user (other than typical generic anchors).  The art of the database design, the coding, the ability and the desire to want to code your site by hand and truely create something that does not look like a Frontpage template.

I realize there are two types of web "developers" out there.  One that uses a tool to layout the site, and one that builds the site, the true web developer.  And there are, unfortunately, too many BAD web developers out there.

Share your passion as Danielle says, but don't overload people with uninteresting or unnecessary content just for the sake of taking up space.  

I'm just tired after looking for some originality and running into the same stuff over and over.  Too much time working on my own site is wearing me down.  I appreciate your patience with my griping.  Now get out there and build some decent sites!

Offline donovanh

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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2004, 02:09:26 PM »
I'm interested, do you have an interesting site to show, ctcrmcou?

A lot of the "Check out my site" posts could be put up by people starting out in the field of web design, who are taking their baby steps by installing Nuke and giving it a colour scheme. These sites, I agree, do not hold any interest. However it is good to see people taking an interest. My first site(s) were REALLY bad. I found out that I could do more interesting stuff if i looked under the hood and got more involved.

I may use a javascript or php snippet if i see how it works and it does what i need,  but I code everything by hand and don't rely on prebuilt scripts. Its sites that are built by someone with an understanding of the processes involved, sites built for a purpose, that i like.

I don't like gardening, but i like Danielle's site. It's real. (Thumbs up for XHTML compatibility too, nice one!)

Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2004, 02:23:46 PM »
Of course, I expected that after my web bashing the response would be "well, let's see your site Mr. know-it-all."  But that is not my purpose with this post.  I'm curious how many people understand my frustration with these useless sites that keeps rolling out.  It's like cell phones, every kid over 3 has to have one.  Having a website is a fad, not a necessity for most.  But if you are going to do something do it with a reason and a purpose, not just to be like everyone else.

Go to a forum to learn, not just to gab.  Everyone has a "look at me, look at me" mentality and I'm sick of it.  Look at kids these days.  They are punks and sluts, and all want to be noticed.  This is because as individuals they have no worth, or at least think they have no worth unless they are convinced it can only be gained by being like everyone else ---  just like these websites.

Geeze, how did I get on the topic of kids?  Anyways, you have a nice business going donavan, good work.  We need more of your type contributing to these forums.  You should come join us at www.siteexperts.com.

Offline donovanh

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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2004, 02:48:37 PM »
Thanks dude, apologies if i came across as "lets see the goods, smartypants" ;)

I was genuinely interested in seeing some more sites that weren't as bland as most of them.

Your point about the "look at me" mentality rings true with my experience. I don't see anything wrong with a bunch of kids putting together sites, the ones that develop their sites, improve them and learn something new have a lot to gain. The ones that put up their site one week, then lose interest when a new flashy plastic gameboy-cashin cartoon arrives make no difference, at least they make up the numbers and increased the odds of someone with a passion and talent finding their way into web design.

But yes, i agree that the majority of sites aren't all that. This is true most places and not just here :D

Edit: SiteExperts.com looks great, thanks for the heads up.

Offline KJones

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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2004, 02:56:00 PM »
No offense man, but your site is a standard 3 column design, just like what you can expect from anyone using phpNuke or a premade template. Where's the originality I was expecting to see after reading your first post?

I hand code my sites, but I do tend to stick with what works best for me... a two column page with a header, menu bar, and footer. I don't care if my sites look like a million other sites because it is the information, not just the layout, that makes them unique.
"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth." - John F. Kennedy


Offline donovanh

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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2004, 03:09:14 PM »
Sorry KJones but i don't see your point. Of course one of my sites is a standard 3 column design. It's appropriate for the function of the site, and I like it. Since when was that an issue?

Quote
I hand code my sites, but I do tend to stick with what works best for me

If you really think that's the holy grail of layouts, I believe your blinkers need removing. Good on you for hand-coding your sites, I don't think anyone here would say that's a bad thing, but a 2-column layout isn't always the ideal layout.

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just like what you can expect from anyone using phpNuke or a premade template

But my site is not from a premade template, I handcoded the template file, handcoded the database and structure of the pages that are generated from the database. The site has pages numbering in the hundreds and runs from 4 or 5 main files. I'm quite proud of that, and find it easy to make changes to how the site works. The average phpNuke user would have a more difficult time changing the integral functionality of their site, which in my view detracts from its usefulness.

Edit: If you are looking for something a little different from Shop Online UK, try looking at the sites linked from http://www.designni.com

Offline KJones

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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2004, 03:19:35 PM »
My point was that if you are going to criticize people for using boring designs you shouldn't point to a site that uses a boring design as if it is something remarkable.

I'm not all that impressed by Flash intensive sites.
"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth." - John F. Kennedy


Offline donovanh

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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2004, 03:26:56 PM »
Quote
My point was that if you are going to criticize people for using boring designs you shouldn't point to a site that uses a boring design as if it is something remarkable

I didn't point to my shopping site as if it was anything remarkable. Where did you get that impression? This thread, and my post, did not criticize people for "boring designs", it said that people who use prefab tools and feel like they've made a real web site are deluding themselves. That's a different thing entirely.

Quote
I'm not all that impressed by Flash intensive sites.

Blinkers.

Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2004, 04:18:34 PM »
Bicker bicker!!  I love it, man.  Now we each have our experience and create our own templates.  Why reinvent the wheel on every site?  As long as its YOUR template that you created that includes scripts and such to manage its features, it doesn't matter if its one, two, three or twenty columns, that's just pointless bickering on that matter.  

What matters is that your best effort, with all the given skills you are capable of, go into the site, and that you reevaluate how you could do it better next time as your skills evolve, and the code, especially on the server, continues to consoldate itself into more and more modular design.  Hell, we are all screwed with client scripting and have to make sacrifices on how many browsers we're willing to support, but your server code manages what to spew out.  Personnally, its DOM JS CSS2 DHTML all the way, otherwise they get the "generic" HTML (no JS, no CSS) version.  Screw accommodating pre-DOM browsers.  My default page evaluates the brower and redirects to the appropriate version.  If there is no JS running, the pages times out to the HTML only version by default.  IF JS is running, then a quick eval of getElementById reveals if the DOM exists.  If not, off to the HTML version.  Otherwise, welcome to the real site.

Offline Ripta

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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2004, 06:25:57 PM »
(Disclaimer: This post is not a flame...)

Quote from: ctcrmcou

Now get out there and build some decent sites!


Hmm.. don't you think "decent" is very subjective? I mean... why bother looking at sites you don't enjoy anyway? :( I'm not saying not to stop criticizing. It can help people to do better. But saying "you're really wasting my time with your lowly websites *insert villainous laugh*" won't help either.

If decency is design, many people are just starting out. I think donovanh has brought this up. And, yes, I do believe most "check my site out" posts are posted by (in quotes) newbies. Professional designers may think, "your website sucks!"

If decency is content... lotsa ways to view that. I don't personally like posting my vacation pictures, but I like looking at others'. It's nice to see sunset pictures, beaches, the ocean or just pictures of people laughing and having fun when I'm frustrated with school. That's art to me.

I can remember seeing a photography site that uses "gold" arial fonts over a black background. No, the layout was not particularly great, but the content was awesome. Photography happens to be the site owner's hobby; not web-design.

Shrug. Just my personal thought anyway :D.

Oh, one more thing that is not related to the above:

Quote from: ctcrmcou

Look at kids these days. They are punks and sluts, and all want to be noticed.


I'm proud to be a kid and I say I want to be noticed. "Punk" I can handle; I'm not exactly the most well mannered person around. But slut?
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Offline ctcrmcou

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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2004, 07:18:13 PM »
no comment